What Do You Think Is a Fair Price To Pay?

One of the biggest criticisms about the premium upgrades is they’re too expensive. We’ll talk to Evil Angel and Vivid, but first I’d like to get a sense on what pricing model would you guys find… non offensive? Of value?

 

Our constraint is the studios will insist on a revenue share of all their content, which means they won’t allow it to be mixed in with the general VideoBox content. It’ll have to be priced in a way that they can track it.

 

Subscriptions

We could ask for cheaper subscriptions, but there are a couple downsides with that model.

 
1. It could get annoying as we expand into more premium studios, and include content from other paysites. You probably wouldn’t want to manage 20 subscriptions.

 
2. Our billers can’t handle this complexity.

 

iTunes?

A much simpler model would be something like iTunes, where we charge one token per scene to watch/download. You’d buy tokens in fixed amounts (like $20 for 20 tokens) from our billers, and we keep track of the balance. Much simpler technically.

 

Then we could just have one area of “premium” content, and make it less prominent. And what do you think would be a fair price to pay to watch or download a scene?

 

Note: under the token approach, VideoBox basic would still exist in its present form.  You’d pay a subscription price for unlimited downloading of 5 DVDs per day.  We would just have an additional area (which would be token-based) for higher end or niche content.

 

Just Say No?

And finally, we could just say “no thanks” to any content that we can’t license without revenue sharing. The downside there is VideoBox will remain fairly constricted to mainstream LA professional porn.

 
Thoughts?

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130 Responses to “What Do You Think Is a Fair Price To Pay?”

  1. HotScooter2 Says:

    Josh:

    i go with just say no. leave the idea of premium channels alone. go back to the old VB

  2. sizelarge22 Says:

    “Just Say No.” This site was great–the best on the net. Why “F” with a good thing?

  3. HotScooter2 Says:

    Josh:

    since you are in charge. Give the premium channels a good kick in the ass,and go back to the old VB. that should be pretty clear that is what most of us want. i don”t even like Vivid and do not know EA enough to comment,but do not wish to pay extra,and certainly do not wish to pay on a token basis.
    At least the last few days must not have been boring you, as your subscribers have been up in arms about it all

  4. 1 Says:

    i like that we have the option to get newer higher quality content, maybe a lower price like $5 per studio would be fair and with a token option to suplement it so as you woudlnt have to suscribe to get taht one title you want from another stuidio.

    I tryed upgrading to EA last night at 2am, it still says pending and will not let me watch anything… any suggestions its been 22 hours and it says it should only take “a few minnues”, im using CCbill

  5. ThePack3455 Says:

    I agree with 1 about the price, but I don’t think you need to try to improve on perfection. I used to be a Vivid member, and I think Evil Angel sucks ass. I love VB and I don’t give a good damn about Vivid or EA, so stick with what has been workin. If you want a Vivid video, go to family video(if you have one by you) and rent one. Basically I would go with the just say no option, but I just come here for porn what do I know.

  6. DH2009 Says:

    I’d just say no, go back to old VB. Was a member for awhile until I had to cancel and came back to re-subscribe but when I saw the Vivid & EA multiple subscriptions I checked out the blog and after reading the other members uproar I have yet to resign up until a solution is found.

    Also, if doing “extra content”, why not put it up to the members as to what studio(s) is chosen. Looked like members had no say in Vivid or EA being the premium content and I’m sure there is a studio or two that the majority really wants on this site that they would have no problem paying a bit extra for to access on VideoBox.

  7. xboxdude1 Says:

    I think there is no general answer, because everyone is different. The all encompassing solution would be to make it a combination of many things. Add the option to remove the premium content entirely in the account setup to please those that want nothing to do with it. Add the option to supplement your Videobox membership with the premium studios, and also add the ability to buy certain scenes/dvds with the token system.

    As for how much I would pay, If all that is launched is 100 DVDs with 3 a week, that isn’t even really worth 5$ a month. This is my value based on how many scenes I download off of videobox in a given week (roughly 5/day), so much more than that seems too expensive. Especially 18$ a month for 15 new DVDs in the month, and 100DVDs to start with.

    As for the token system, 20 DVDs for 20$ is too expensive, considering I could become a member for 18$ and download all 100 some for that price, so maybe 10-25cents per DVD would be a more acceptable figure.

    As I said, the main thing to keep in mind is that the more options you have the more people you will make happy, but also understand, that the way you have made videobox is such that we expect to have 5 updates a day with a 6000 DVD archive for only around 20$ a month. Anything that you offer us that isn’t comparable to that is going to seem extremely expensive.

    I hope this feedback helps, it is just my humble opinion.

  8. ropeadope Says:

    Josh – I wouldn’t change a thing with the site offerings (standard VideoBox, Evil Angel, Vivid) and pricing structure. Kudos to The Content Dude and all others at VideoBox who were instrumental in bringing the premium content to the site. Evidently you have some issues with the billing agents, which I know will be corrected going forward. You’re not going to please everyone. I can’t believe I’m reading complaints from individuals who recently signed up for 18 month memberships at $120.00. That’s a rate of $6.67 per month. Adding a premium channel would up the ante to $13.33 per month, still below the normal monthly rate of a DVD resolution subscription. Additionally, there is no need to upgrade immediately. If unwilling to pay $13.33/month for the remainder of their subscription, they can wait 6 months, 10 months, 12 months, or any interval that pleases them. All the while enjoying the best adult site on the net for $6.67/month. Then upgrade and download the available premium content (which will be more plentiful by that point in time to boot). The point is, if a person in that enviable situation is unhappy, how can you possibly please everyone?

  9. TBiz Says:

    I’m going to vote for the token option. If done well, it could be a nice addition to the site without bothering those who don’t want anything more.

    I would definitely pay for some scenes. I have looked into signing up for other subscriptions just for the opportunity to see porn from certain actresses or genres (i.e. Crissy Moran, “tease” soft porn)

    The only reason I haven’t is because it’s annoying and not worth the extra monthly expense for only a few scenes.

  10. Shahram Says:

    This is my very first post on this blog. This situation irritates me so much that I need to say something. I like EA stuff a lot, but we already have tons and tons of materials with the same quality on VB. Most of the material from Platinum X, RLD, DVSX, Fusxion and some other studios are as good as EA stuff, and they don’t try to rip us off. For god’s sake, how many high quality scenes do we really need to jack off in our limited lifetime? I have enough excellent scenes on my hard drive (all from the old VB) to jack off for my next ten incarnations. Just say no to “Buttman” and tell him to go fuck himself.

    PS: I won’t even download a single Vivid scene if they are all offered for free. That kind of vanilla porn doesn’t even make me hard.

  11. pistolero Says:

    I don’t really have any problem with the new changes. It seems like the only way.
    I’ve been a member for almost 2 years now, and I’ve been a happy camper ever since I joined. It’s almost ridiculous how far $10-15 will get you these days, isn’t it?

    I appreciate that the premiums aren’t mandatory, so the monthly cost doesn’t rise. I might dive into EA for a month and download everything I want and cancel. Since this is an option, I’m sure many will take advantage of it as such. I’m hesitant at this point though because the billing seems to have problems from the blog reports. Not interested in Vivid at all. It was the company to beat 10 years ago, but the landscape has changed a great deal since.

    I find it interesting that many people have the argument that $18 is too expensive for 100 dvds. I think you’d be hard pressed to find ONE Evil Angel dvd for that price. I also think back a few years and remember how much a porn habit would cost and how much of a pocketbook savior Videobox was when i found it. I get the argument. If one can get 6000 dvds for $10, how is the other way a good deal? It’s not using that logic. I do see that going on month -to -month that 12 new videos a month as opposed to 150 for half the price IS a bit lopsided.

    I also appreciate the catering to the niche markets as much as a mainstream swiss army knife of a website possibly can. Sure, I’d like to see more quality bbw and bdsm videos than are currently available, but I can’t really complain. I see the throngs of customers “reviewing” whenever these types of videos are uploaded so I understand.

    All is good. Something for everyone.

  12. doppyman Says:

    First I thought the premium channels were $18 a month. Then I thought they were $9 a month and now I’m beginning to think they ARE $18 a month. Funny thing is I STILL DON’T KNOW!!!!! Hey, I’m not a stupid guy. And I have checked around. Still no clear answer. I love your site, but I would like it more if you posted, on this blog, under this topic a very simple statement. It would go something like this. If your VB subscription is X a month, if you add one premium channel it will cost you X + Y. Y would be the monthly price of the subscription. If someone else wants to help me out and answer this question, that would be cool too. Are Exboxdude and Pistolero wrong here? Was Josh misspeaking when he earlier stated that EA costs $29.95 a month and we were getting it for a third of the price? HELP. Given the tiny selection of vids available on the premium channel and the trickle at which updates are released, I would think that the absolute most you should charge would be $10 a month. Of course, anyone with any sense would sign up for one month only and download what they wanted and maybe come back a year later. Of course with the billing issues the way the are, I would personally quit my membership and then resign up some time later at the premium price, because it sounds like if you try to change horses in midstream you get screwed over as it is now.

  13. rutnadexin3 Says:

    By mistake I bought an Evil Angel (I was sort of drunk at the time, oh well). Anyway, I cancelled, I still have full access, and will not get my money back because I am not on the monthly plan. Hence, no billing cycle. I’m stuck until then end. It’s okay. It was my fault; I was just checking the price & fucked up. But if u do decide to kick these two companies in the nads, then will all members who paid for this content get their money back prorated no matter how our regular VB account is setup?

  14. DontQuoteMe Says:

    Please – No Tokens! Keep VideoBox the way it currently is. I signed up for EA and Vivid the day you offered them! I welcome more premium studio additions. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t have deep pockets, but believe it is only common sense to pay a price for premium content. I have a DVD library and pay anywhere between $5 to $35 per title based on studio. The price VideoBox is charging is very reasonable. You will always have people that expect something for nothing – but you already have the BEST adult DVD site in the world for the best prices. Keep VB the way it is and add more premium channels – users can decide if it is worth it to them to add the channels.

  15. jaykay Says:

    Indeed keep the site as it is. No tokens please. I like the channels solution. If VB in the future add more channels, you could maybe even do a combo thing? As in “buy this + this channel – and you’ll receive 1 month free”? Or something like that, the possibilities are endless.

    And if the case of a channels model is picked, some options for customers with basic subscriptions to turn off a “show premium content in searches” and the like, would be really sweet. I’m not saying everything should be fully customizesable but a few things would make us think you care :)

    The tokens solution would greatly annoy me for that fact, that your mind immediately switches over to focusing on the economy part of it, instead of the porn. Each time I click on a DVD I would go “hmm is this video really what I want to see?” instead of just enjoying a nice scene or two that I would else never have seen.

  16. Microphone Says:

    I think that tokens are the worst thing that could possibly happen. They would cause a constant billing nightmare. Also they don’t really mix well with the theme of VB having so much content.
    I think that there should be two tiers of VB. The regular that offers the standard 6000+ DVDs, and then a premium that offers ALL specialized studios. Charge an extra $10 per month for the premium option and all is good.

  17. beezer Says:

    Personally, I’m fine with the Premium Channels being just the way they are. $17.95 is not an outrageuos amount of money when you consider that those studios charge $15 to $30 per month for the same content. If I want EA content – which I do – then I’d be paying the VB monthly subscription plus $15 per month for EA ($30 for the first month there). If I didn’t want that content then I simply don’t subscribe to those channels.

    The one point that I would make, is that the new movies that you add to the Premium Channels should be kept separate from the VB content. Right now it looks like when you add an EA or Vivid video it is considered as one of the 5 DVDs per day added to VB. This isn’t fair to those people who don’t subscribe to those channels and can not view or download them.

    Another alternative if you absolutely must make a change is to have a separate service similar to the way you do the VideoBox Men. You could have a “VideoBox Premium” or something similar.

    People can be resistant to change, particularly when it happens without any warning or a chance for input. And people generally the only people who you will hear from are those who are unhappy for one reason or another. Those of us that like the service and are happy to have it are much less likely to speak up. Human nature, I guess…

    In the future you ought to give users the heads up on what you’re considering and allow people to give their feedback before you implement the change.

  18. Spamalot Says:

    My preference would be:

    1. Be able to use the Flash player, at a low res to keep the studios happy, to see which premium vids I like all the way through
    2. Be able to use the token idea to download any specific premium DVDs I want for a fair price
    3. Be able to upgrade to a monthly subscription to the premium channels as you’ve just put in place (with the billing issues ironed out) if I decide I’m downloading enough of the premium content via the tokens to be worth upgrading

    Looking at the caps of the premium content I’m happy with what I’ve got on the standard service, but the options above would let me dip into the premium content to see if I’m interested. And the premium studios get to see what I’m looking at and have two different models for generating revenue.

    I’m quite picky with what I like. I tend to go for lesbian & POV scenes (and even better, lesbian POV like in Lesbian Eye. Hot!) but I don’t like aggressive porn or POV where the guy talks all over it. So if I could have a way of previewing that lets me check out the sound rather than just the screen caps then I’m happy.

    S

  19. zarafan Says:

    There are some good titles on EA that I would like to see and would even be willing to pay extra for; I haven’t seen anything appealing from Vivid yet, but if they were to include their vintage back catalog, that could be good too. I would like to upgrade and plan to do so EVENTUALLY, but right now I don’t yet know what I would be getting or how much a month it would cost: I’m waiting for VB to work the kinks out of the system and explain better how the billing cycle will work; is it still one flat rate, either $9.99 or $17.99, or two charges, or three charges if you subscribe to Vivid AND EA, or what? I’m still at the wait and see stage, though I don’t fault VB for trying something new and I always welcome new content.

    Please explain and please stay in the loop, Josh!

    Zarafan

  20. Uplink Says:

    I think the premium options are fine just like they are.. Its UNLIMITED downloading of DRM FREE movies from premium studios! I think the fear from your customers is that you guys will start neglecting the normal videobox service, and everything will go to premium, so then people will have $1000/year bills b/c everything they want is on a premium channel. BUT if you truly stick to like vivid, EA, digital playground, etc, really high end studios I think its ok. But as a lot of us have said.. More titles right of the bat to make it seem more worth wild. Maybe a few really new moives from the studios? 2008/2009 titles… Also add real HD downloads 720/1080 in the right aspect ratios. If we are going to pay, make sure we have the quality and the quantity. I do not want to go to an pay $20’s to get 5 movies, I will never buy that..

  21. Bill Says:

    First off no to tokens!
    I agree with the above that there is a worry that VB original might get neglected… and assuming this is not the case I don’t have an issue with Premium Channels after all I don’t have to subscribe! I do think the cost is to high though and am likely should I want any content to wait 3-4 months, subscribe for one month and download… With this in mind would it not be more sensible for the studios to have a consistent $5 or so rather than $18 every once in a while? I’m sure that more people would use it consistently at this cost, especially if you start adding more Premium Channels.

  22. Marius Says:

    I for one welcome EA and Vivid and the Premium Channels, and one aspect that immediately comes to mind is that if I am searching for a particular model, say Stoya, she is currently not available here and as my number one site I think VB should have all the major performers, of which I classify Stoya as one. I am a EA fan and most notably with Adult Movies there are a variety of tastes and preferences but I am very glad to see VB taking risks and listening to their customers. I just wish there was some way to include my other tastes, such as fisting on the site, as ultimately it is when something is lacking that usually sends me to another site, and another membership. Personally I also think the cost for Premium Channels is quite a bargain, although I won’t be downloading any from Vivid, just not my taste.

  23. Skullcrusher Says:

    My concern is not about the implementation, but the precedent that is being set. Today it’s EA and Vivid, and tomorrow? What’s to keep other studios from not renewing existing contracts because they feel their content should be premium too? It’s potentially a dangerous change for the long term.

  24. Carl Says:

    “Just Say No” to the premium channels, from what i can see the content you have from other studios is much better than whats offered by EA and Vivid. VB is pretty much the only place i come for porn, but from what i have seen of the samples from these 2 companies I am not impressed. I also agree for what they are offering its way to spendy when compared to the standard VB.

  25. vaidx41 Says:

    Don’t like the token idea, never have. i might not watch all of a scene or decide actually it’s not for me then i have wasted a token.

    The way you do it at the moment is the best model imo, i pay a flat rate and download as little or as much as i want. it suits me just fine that way. As i said last week i don’t understand all these people bitching about the price you are charging. To me what you offer seems really reasonable for the money.

    In addition, i still think you’re doing a bang up job. loving the new content. shame their isn’t more updates but i’ll take 3 EA dvd’s a week, loving it. I agree about Vivid with alot of others, premium!!!! you have much better studios in the normal VB already. Vivid are not very good imo.

    I keep noticing people worrying about the pro rata rate when signing up to your premium channels, just thought i’d say checked my account today and i haven’t been billed a ridiculous amount of money just what i was expecting, people are worried that the payment will be backdated months to when they first joined. i think you need to let people know this is not the case as from what i’m reading it’s putting people off upgrading to the premium channels.

  26. Ditto Says:

    “Premium” porn is not intrinsically that much better to me than what Videobox has offered in the past. They have many exciting actresses, and do many unique things, but that’s all gravy. What appeals to me about VB is constant variety, and a stocked archive which provides me with something for just about any mood I can imagine. Here is what would convince me to buy into premium channels:
    1) Same model, change in price. VB basic puts up 5 titles a day. Understanding that “premium” films are more expensive, I would consider signing up for a channel that I like (at the price you have now) if it gave me one extra film a day. Thus, basic would stay the same for 5 titles a day, and the 6th daily title would cost me an extra $9.95 a month. The 7th daily title another $10 per month and so on and so forth when more channels come into being.
    2) Were you to just create a “premium” area, and let people upgrade to that, I’m hard pressed to say how much extra I’d pay without knowing what it provided. Breaking it into the above guess that I made, I’d certainly pay an extra $20 a month if it provided me two extra daily titles from some “premium” studio. I wouldn’t have control over WHICH studio, but I honestly don’t care. I think Content Dude takes good care of me, and I trust him to get a nice variety in for our viewing pleasure.

    Cheers, and thanks again for nurturing the good thing you’ve created.

  27. bigkai19 Says:

    Well, I agree with other members, TO JUST SAY NO! The EA, channel is a cool add, I don’t care about Vivid content, personally I think it sucks. The TOKEN thing is a big NO, NO. VB felt like a private site for the members viewing pleasure, it’s now getting that COMMERCIAL feel to it, and that isn’t a good thing, as I said once before, start adding other parties, with their fees, and more law issues will come along with it, as well as REMOVING content. Keep Vb SIMPLE, just work on improving downloads, and quality of the content. And as far as premium channels go, 1 dvd per day is a much better deal. Vb is labeled the best porn video download site on the net, making these moves, will surely be a downgrade. I’ve been a member to other sites similar to Vb, but I canceled them for actions, that are occurring here now. Keep it simple! If other parties want to be a’holes about linking up, then screw em’!

  28. bobsipod Says:

    I suppose you’ll find your answers to whether or not premium content works in your bottom line. It seems to me that these blogs have acted as outlets for the nay-say group to voice their opinion. I initially counted myself among that group, but now i’m thinking i’m going to scan the premium content from time to time, and see if its worth my money. Right now, it is not. This could change if i start seeing 7 or 8 scenes from my favorite stars that i have not access to. Like most things, all this could and likely will look vastly different in 6 months.

  29. Garp Says:

    Josh VB is too expensive….uh…$6.67 is way too much…and uh…I can just jerk it to skin-a-max. (Rope will you keep quite about the incredible value before they raise the cost!!!) Uh.. in this economy…it should be $2.00 a month and $1 for premium content…yeah that’s fair. (Rope keep quite about the value…just give me a survey on brazillian chicks with the best asses)

    Thanks you…uh..disgrunted member..

  30. mistahleary Says:

    “1. It could get annoying as we expand into more premium studios, and include content from other paysites. You probably wouldn’t want to manage 20 subscriptions.”

    Translation: As other studios see what we are doing with Vivid and EA, they will be wanting the same kind of deal. So when our current deals are up with Red Light, DVSX, Private, etc, they are going “Premium”, leaving basic VB members trannies, British porn, and anime updates.

  31. Garp Says:

    …by the way quiet is spelled either quite or quit when you’re disgruntled!!!

  32. cerage2000 Says:

    Just say no is the option I would say. Every legit review site that I can find lists videobox as the best site. If vivid and ea want to eventually come to their senses, they will come to you with a better offer. Besides, what was wrong with it before? I’m not even sure that they are worth it even if it was free, and especially at extra cost. Not to mention the extra headache it sounds like it is causing videobox from an administrative side. Just say no and continue being as good as you were before. I’m also worried that if other studios get wind of what is going on w/ vivid and ea, then the entire structure of vb can go down in a hurry. that would be bad news for everyone involved.

  33. FlopTheNuts Says:

    Seriously, most of your subscribers are just casual porn fans who wouldn’t know a Platinum X from a DVDSX (or whatever) from an Evil Angel. That includes me. I guess people like EA and Vivid. I looked at the Premium channels and I’m like, what’s the big fucking deal? It’s just porn. I have my favorite stars and series and that’s just fine. I’m not paying any more just so I can download slightly better porn. Some people are willing to pay more for it. That’s fine. But the problem is that you guys are pissing the rest of us off (and I think we represent the vast majoritY). Do I care about EA or Vivid? No. Apparently they haven’t been on VB before and I did just fine. Do I care that you guys are trying to rake us over for more $$$? YES. That pisses my shit off. So basically what I’m saying is that EA/Vivid/Premium channels don’t matter to most of us. But the fact that we’re getting the old bait and switch really, really does.

  34. ben Says:

    what do we need to do to get a rim job category!!!

  35. zarafan Says:

    Dear Flop the Nuts,

    If you can’t tell the difference between Platinum X and DVSX, then you betray all the symptoms of a fundamentally healthy relationship to reality, and therefore have no business contributing to this blog, which is intended for people who spend their days ranking the best facial scenes of the 1990s, wondering why Brianna Love got a tattoo, and how much longer Stephanie Swift will continue making videos…. Get with the program, man!!

    :-)

    zarafan

  36. Moron Says:

    I really can’t understand why so many people are pissed off. If you don’t want to watch Evil Angel / Vivid then simply don’t subscribe to the channel; what have you lost? As long as the “non-premium” channel remains of the same high quality I’ll be happy (however if many of the better studios move from the “non-premium” to premium content I’d probably cancel my subscription). Personally I’d not heard of evil angel before it popped up here, and so far it looks well below the quality of your existing studios, the same goes for 99% of vivid videos.

  37. Lubenluv Says:

    Personally, I think you’ve got this whole thing backwards. I don’t know VB’s subscription base, but I have to assume given all the positive press you guys get that you have got a fairly good sized base of users. Now compare that to EA’s user base. I’ve said before that their website absolutely, without a doubt, is the WORST in the industry. Content wise, they rule. But their technical competence is laughable…dead links galore, broken webpages, terrible UI. I never went to Vivid’s site so can’t speak to that. But VB represents an ENGINE and a subscriber base that EA should WANT to tap into. They don’t have to advertise it heavily, you do that for them. They don’t have to pay the credit card fees, you are doing that for them. They don’t have to pay for half-assed website engine updates, you have a far superior distribution engine than they could ever produce. If I were you, I’d be playing the role of BROKER of your portal and subscriber base and letting THEM subsidize the content for your VB users. Now to some extent, you’ve done this at $20 a month or whatever, as this is cheaper than their normal fee of $30/month. But lets be honest here…this is OLD content, not fresh DVD stuff. It’s already paid for, costs them nothing to produce further. I’ve even noticed you offer more comprehensive d/l options than they do on their native site. So you should be able to offer it to us at a very low price because anything they make off of VB subscribers is likely “free money” for them. This is a business model that works in almost any other industry. You seem to have the ability to make it work here as well. Oh and forget the tokens idea. That simply doesn’t work outside of very niche-oriented VOD sites. Sites such as givemepink used to be token based and have long since gone to straight per-month pricing.

  38. DRHouse Says:

    I have no Prob with the new Premuim Channels, if the Quality of the standard Content is still good how cares??? If someone is interrested in Vivid (???) or Ea Content he can upgrade, but i prefer the I-tunes Model with tokens, within this model i can choose to take EA material whenever i want just for the scene or the Movie i want.
    But pllzzz be sure that i the members can buy the tokens from al the billing services, lot of non US Members haven´t a Credt card.
    by the way thats my only critic at all the premium Channel stuff: why is it so tricky to get ay upgrade from any webbilling service???

  39. militiagoat Says:

    Not only are most the videos anal now but the quality has really gone downhill on all dvd’s added. I am looking forward to the end of my subscription. You want the ultimate site then get your head out of your asses. And figure out most here dont want anal crap faggots!

  40. Joe Says:

    Dump it…
    You know that all other studios will want to be Premium Channels, VB basic will suck and all your customers will leave.

  41. meltedmoss Says:

    A token system only works if you don’t make it uneven so that I don’t have to over buy tokens to view scenes. If they are all the same price to download I can buy my tokens and plan what I want to see. Previews should be free tho I can see people getting pretty pissed downloading something poor quality or mis represented bad audio, angles or girls etc. I know there are suspect videos right now that I regret spending time downloading and I am not wasteing money but it still sucks

    And once I have downloaded that scene I should own it, if I want to go back and re-aquire it I can. None of this crap where you can only get it once.

    Manageing 10 different subs will get annoying as well, much less the incrimental cost involved with adding a new one as they roll out.

    Basically you are passing the additional cost of licening the scenes on to us as consumers of Videobox, this solution is definatly not the best, we won’t have any input into what is selected and the tastes on this site run all over the place so even voteing on things to add will get pretty sloppy if you went that route. People complain about anal scenes all over but obvisoulsy many people watch them to.

    I’d like to see more content added but maybe another way can be found. It sounds more like what you need is a blanket premium upgrade price say to 25-30$/month with deals for commiting longer. Keep the current price as is for those that wish to commit to the DVD quiality basic model. Because paying for each premium channel is just going to get out of had very quickly even at $1 a channel it’ll still add up to a huge monthly bill if you add alot of channels “if” alot of channels are rolled out I don’t know how many are planned to be added. I’d like to see a High Quality Hentai channel added and those sites alone are 30-35$ not sure how you’d make that work to be cost effective. ;) I hope you get it worked out

    However I think you stepped in a huge pile of shit with this idea and need to re-think things and do something else with it. I like the “concept” of it but it dosn’t fit with the current angle of your site. I pay 18/month once the US dollar is factored in for 6000 DVD’s I can download as much as I want re-vist crap I remember viewing 4 years ago (mostly) Still pissed about big wet asses ;( SO it’s a pretty good deal to me. Adding another 2 $10.channels means this site would be 30/month cdn. and the quality wouldn’t ever justify that from what I’ve seen even of the premium channels the quality isn’t that much better.

    Take a look at the quality of the videos at Sapphic/Little Mutt those sites are worth 30/month. Even at only 250 videos etc. If you had that kind of quality with 6000+ videos at 30/month it would be a crazy deal. I liked the videos you put out in 2005 those are the ones I am currently paying to access past about 2006-7 most of the videos are pretty underated. There are plenty of “dogs” and “Crack whores” past 2007 when you started doing the crazy updates alot of really trashy videos started popping in.

    I understand the dicotomy of having alot of updates vs quality videos I’ve never really minded it much since the site was cheap and it’s like a bargain bin structure every now and then I get something of value that makes it worth it.

    I’ve been a member since 2005 under 4-5 different names and I mostly quit because the updates become garbage. I don’t see anything better comeing out of Vivid or Evil Angel the I did out of Notorious or RedLight (2 best on the site)

    Anyway this is way to long for a blog but I wanted to say my piece I like the site but to make it worth it you need Quanity/Quality at a reasonable price. You are now getting too expensive for what you are selling. $25/month for Vivid/EA and vidobox would be worth it to me. If I knew 4 more studios were not going to be added next week that would run me another $20-$40. At those prices it would be cheaper for many of us to oder PPV/Cable porn channels. $50/month buys me a nice cable package where I live where I get onDemand porn in 1080p

  42. febtober Says:

    Just Say No!! I’m afraid that if you start to add more premium channels, you’ll dilute the good stuff on VB. Please just stick with what was working. I’m willing to bet that the premium channels aren’t as succesful as you imagined they would be.

  43. THEDIDDY Says:

    I am not sure of the best way, but I look at it like this:

    1. I signed up for the Evil Angel premium content on the fourth day, and at this point in time, THERE IS NOTHING ELSE ON THERE I WOULD EVER WATCH! And there was an update today, that is of no interest to me. I have already unsubscribed to the EA channel because there is not enough to make it worth me keeping it! This is the exact opposite of standard VB. I can’t cancel because I would be missing out on 150 dvd’s I MAY like. And for $10 a month, I just can’t see cancelling and resubscribing at will. But at 12-15 per month (Which between the 20 Part 2’s on the EA site) there is no way its worth it.

    2. I do think it is worth it in some respects, but I think your ABSOLUTE BEST WAY would be to have VB and VB premium. One price for VB ($10 per month) and one price for VBP ($20 per month) that includes ALL premium content. If there were more than Vivid and EA and at least two updates per day, I would easily subscribe, but you get to $30-$40 per month and its JUST NOT WORTH IT.

    3. Do not do tokens(Although thats a great idea for a separate website), the ITUNES of PORN, this way the producers get paid for whats purchased and can price accordingly.

    Try getting 2-3 MORE PREMIUM studios and getting them all to take a buck or two per month per subscriber to VBPremium and charge the extra $10 per month to those who want it.

  44. Papayaman1 Says:

    There are going to be advantages and disadvantages with any change and I think that is the case here. The down side involves the fact that the introduction of channels undeniably makes VB more complicated than it used to be. Another potential disadvantage is that other top rank channels (such as Red Light District, maybe Private) will say we want to be premium channels in due course. The latter is the one that really worries me as it would impact negatively on the old or main channel. This needs to be avoided at all costs as it devalues what we get for the basic subscription.

    The clear up side is that the premium channels are a way of bringing us more content we would not otherwise have had. And I have to say that the Evil Angel content does look very interesting to me (as I’m sure Vivid will appeal to others). Although the nuances of the pricing situation seem complex and not entirely clear, it does seem that the basic point is that an extra $10 a month will get you Evil Angel content – and as Josh has pointed out this compares rather well with the $30 charged by Evil Angel itself. Of course this point depends rather on the quality of the content – $10 would not look such a great deal if EA palms VB off with rubbish. But this does not seem to be happening. And that makes me welcome the extra channels. So long as the integrity of the old channel is not compromised (and so far there is no evidence that this has happened) then the new content is additional – its gravy. I will likely subscribe to EA at some point when the kinks have been ironed out.

    And the present model is the best I can think of. At the moment we still have the option of sticking with the old channel at $10 a month, but we also have the option of spending another $10 a month and getting additional EA or Vivid content. Contrary to what some people are saying, the old VB isn’t gone. It’s still there and we can stick with that – but we can also spend a bit more and have the premium content. This is the best solution available to us at the moment. I agree with those who don’t want tokens. I think they would change the character of the site. Besides it seems to me that this would be much the same arrangement as on Video Box on Demand where you purchase each video you download or stream. Why do it here when you can go to VB on Demand? And there is more content there than is currently on the premium channels.

    For these reasons I welcome the existing arrangement. It could be fine-tuned. It does not seem unreasonable to ask for a few more updates (say one a day) for the premium channels. And the crucial thing is that the integrity of the traditional VB must not be compromised.

  45. mistahleary Says:

    All of this has a question grating in my head. How did you guys at VB create such a good site, and then put such little thought into this “Premium” crap? Besides the planting of “premium” scenes in the TSOTW, and the All, Vivid, EA channels w/ no BASIC channel, you haven’t even gotten the billing right for the pervs that want it. Did any thought go into it, or are you so hard up to squeeze some more $$ out of this site, you are just throwing shit at the wall, hoping something sticks?

  46. ESPN Sucks Says:

    Keep it the way it is. I may or may not sign up for one of the premium channels somewhere down the road, but am not opposed to having the option to access them through this site (provided of course that the regular content by and large remains at the quality that it is now or even improves).

    The token idea is the worst possible thing that could happen. Anything that would mess up my simple one month charge at a relatively reasonable rate would be quite upsetting to say the least.

  47. DeMartini Says:

    I say no, things are just fine the way they are, this is starting to get WAY to overcomplicated. The only model you should follow is the KISS model (keep it simple stupid)

  48. josh Says:

    BTW, I think I may have done a poor job in expressing what I meant by tokens. I have no plan to take anything away from the current VideoBox. You still get unlimited access for a monthly subscription.

    We would just have an additional area (which would be token-based) for higher end or niche content.

  49. sam m Says:

    find it absolutely amazing all the complaining. Go back to the old VB? What has changed? If you don’t want the premium channels then don’t subscribe to them, what am I missing that changed? The original is still there for the same price and if someone wants a premium channel they pay more. For the amount of videos in there I wouldn’t subscribe now but maybe in the future. As for pricing no one will be happy, but can’t figured out what the problem is. For now I am sticking with the basic VB and in the future may look at the premiums as an extra options. Relax guys and say thank you for VB trying to add new things. Don’t like the token idea though unless it is strictly on the premium channels

  50. ocdave67 Says:

    I think the price is just about right but what bothers me is that you integrated these new channels into the main VB page and archives. This content belongs exclusively in your EXTRAS section of the website. I am annoyed that I still have to select a “channel” for my search results to remove premium content. This would be OK once, but why you are taking your time making a “cookie” so that I do not have to do this every search?
    I know as many others do that you offer a videobox site that is a pay per minute. On that site you have nearly every movie by every studio ever made. However, you do not take these titles and put the scenes in the main archives to “tempt” us into buying PPV minutes. Somehow you feel that it is ok to do this with the new channel content. Why is that? Move the two channels and all content out of the VB main site please. Threats or just threats but I do feel that I live up to my threats. Here is my “threat”. If VB does not get the polished filter with “cookies” done by the end of this week you lose a customer. This is not rocket science to achieve and every day you do not accomplish this task, I am sure that I and others get a little more agitated about it everyday.For this customer that agitation will end on Friday or before. end of rant..

  51. harstad Says:

    I still dont know how much it is. Im a premium subscriber now, so It would cost me another $17.95 a month? Is this right?

  52. Strangepork Says:

    I will answer the question “What do you think is a fair price to pay?” with another question: How low can you go?
    -
    Honestly, consider why we are here in the first place. For me, it is because I get an incredible variety to choose from for a great price, with new choices added every day. So if I’m going to increase my porn bill, I expect just as much value from any add-on.
    -
    I suspect that most of the money made from the site is from long term subscribers rather than people who join for a month, download a bunch of stuff, and then quit. I think you could use the premium content as a way to add value to your existing subscriber accounts and attract new subscribers. I say bring the price down as close as you can to the bottom line. You are already making money from the “standard” subscriptions, and these studios should just be icing on top of that. Being able to offer premium studios is a great way to market the site, but if you make it a killer deal people will stick around much longer. If it costs as much as joining another site, we might just go join another site instead. But give us value, and we’ll have no reason to go anywhere else.

  53. xtcbyme Says:

    I have a huge issue with this nonsense about price, what is fair and what is not. Bottom-line the fair price is what I am willing to pay for it. Today the $99.95 for 10 months of DVD quality video works great for me!
    I love VB and I have more downloaded video based content than I can view in any given time. That being said the only real complaint is one that was stated above, and I am going to echo. I think regular VB members ought to be teased with premium content, but lets not rub our nose in it okay? Keep those premium updates off our daily updates list.
    If the billing issues can be worked out I think your premium channel upgrades is a great model. The only issue I can see is what happens if my VB subscription runs out before a premium?
    The idea that ALL the porn content I buy or am willing to buy is in one place is a big plus for me. No worries about not being billed correctly, no bait and switch, dl speeds that meet my expectations. I say the future looks damn GOOD for VB!

  54. HotScooter2 Says:

    Josh:

    i know i have given you a simple just say no,but the answer is not as simple as that. there is nothing inherently wrong with the premium channels other than that it might start a trend and other studios follow suit. the main problem is i am still confused about the price. i am billed through Epoch and last time i looked it was still not accepting the premium channels. i know you have tried answering the price but i did not really understand it. i am currently paying $9.95 a month recurring for basic VB. when it goes through with Epoch. how much more per month for Vivid and or EA.
    Thanks. i think better clarification will bring more peaceful feelings with members

  55. SingularManX Says:

    Josh: Tempting as it is to change VideoBox, you ought first fix it.

    No videos without sound, no videos without the correctly-spelled name of every actor and actress, light and color correct, every entry correctly entered into the database, duplicates eliminated.

    When this is accomplished, consider improvements, but considering improvements before the basic are covered is a mistake.

  56. MikhailT Says:

    You need to explain more about the “token” thing. is it with DRM? 30 days rental? one time view only?

    9.99$ for each studio is good enough but the fact is there isn’t enough new contents coming out from each studio to justify the subscription at 18$ a month. 9.99$ might be worth it or tokens in this case would be better depending on the answers to the token questions above.

    Me? Personally I would say no to Vivid and EA. A lot of their content is too similiar and filled with fake boob porn stars that we all are used to already.

    I want the kinky shit, something different from the straight content VB is just getting overloaded with.

    Where’s the mature films? Mature or MILF is not 20-30 years old who had kids. I am talking 40+ year old hotties. Where are the BSDM films?

    Shit I would pay an extra 20$ a month just to access all kind of kinky shit that VB might not be willing to be open to general but only as extra to current members who request explicitly to the kinky shit that is just disgusting to general but awesome for us. (mature, pissing, fatties, shemales, etc)

  57. tom brokaw Says:

    Yeah, what does it fucking cost? I haven’t gotten a clear cut answer to this.

  58. Robert Says:

    No tokens. Leave it as it is. Why mess with perfection? I too never once considered canceling my subscription until this premium channel business came up. VB does need some improvements but it is fine the way it is. Perhaps another format that would play in a stand alone dvd player? Fix some of the other stated problems in the comments? Maybe an Iphone optimizes site?

  59. littlebilly Says:

    i’ve used other sites based on a token model and i prefer VBs model. plain, vanilla VB was (and is) very good. i do not see any compelling reason to upgrade my membership. I do not know if VB is financially insolvent or something and that’s why they pursued an alternate model but from my perspective as a user of the site, it was not broken and did not need fixing. Josh, you don’t really think that EA and Vivid add anything substantial or compelling to the quality of the content on the site, do you? I just don’t see it.

  60. chad Says:

    leave it alone, say no.
    i love this site with its awsome 6000 dvd content for under 10$ a month.
    it makes it my favorite paysite.
    i guess offer an additional premium for those who REALLY want the extra few studios.
    do not mess with a great setup of a great site!

  61. Jeff Says:

    I would not like to see the tokens. I’m not against the premium channels, if they were more than 5$ I would most likely just sign up for a month and then drop it later. Definitely would like to see them completely separate from the main site.

  62. JS Says:

    Hi,
    I have, as others, two main concerns: one is that the definition of ‘premium’ can quickly expand to studios that currently are offered in the regular VB.
    Second, that in order to move people to the add-on premium subscription, you will slack-off on the main VB.
    Apple fought hard to keep iTunes reasonably priced. I think you should do the same.

  63. despo Says:

    A similar model to current VB might be good, 4.99 for basic streaming, make 9.99 for full quality downloading. As someone who only streams, I could see paying 19.99 for regular VB and the 2 premium studios, but I’ll “just say no” at the current prices. If I was gonna spend another $20 a month on subscriptions, I’d much rather pick up a site like BangBros, etc.

  64. Mircalla Says:

    I like the channel solution myself — the only thing that needs to be sorted at present are the billing difficulties.

  65. bobsipod Says:

    OK, so here’s another component to premium content. you want more of my money? Give me more resolution! I wanna see Cody Lane’s “Teenline” vid in Hi Definition. I’m only vaguely aware of what studio I’m watching, but if Bree Olsen, Sophie Dee, and Isabella Soprano are offered in 1080p, im probably gonna part with some extra dough.

  66. DH2009 Says:

    just wanna say that after reading some of these posts that there a few really good ideas from it that hopefully VB is working on or is considering now.

    Examples: -New Videos(08/09 Videos) being implemented whether we need to pay a few bucks extra or not, would be worth it.

    -Transferring the Premium channels to the “Extras” area(like VB on demand is), but can still do some advert on main page to notify viewers/subscribers.

    -1080P HD

    -Letting your majority population choose. Get whatever studios want to be part of the VB family and make a poll to choose who gets in.
    I mean we get to choose our fantasy 3some, but can’t choose what new studio(s) should be implemented on VB, something we can actually benefit from?

    Anyways it still is a great site but those ideas reviewed above by your members would blow competition away and you would never have to look back

  67. digital_ten2 Says:

    i dont’ have a problem w/ the format… i’m not willing to pay extra for the two studios that you’ve added, but maybe eventually you’ll add a studio i would pay… and if it was content i wanted it’s a fair price

  68. Vlad Says:

    I have no issue with the current state of things. The premium channels are there for those that want them, the “normal” content I subscribed to get is still available.

    Given all the billing issues being mentioned, I have no intention of going near the premium channels myself but am still getting a good deal on the basic content.

    As long as the quality doesn’t completely erode on new content, I’ll keep subscribing.

  69. Breadwinner Says:

    Hi VB Josh,

    It took me a while to read over (most) of the posts here. Tough crowd tonight. I do not think it is proper to throw around a bunch of profanities. I think we can convey our thoughts and opinions with some class.
    Now, the pricing issue, again, is sticky in that I really do not care about how you price the “premium” channels at this time because it does not involve me. I am not planning on paying for these channels nor am I interested in the content as I am just skimming the surface of VB’s back catalog. HOWEVER, I think many here have voiced the issue of the slippery slope and you yourself have indicated an intent to add additional “premium” studios. Therein lies the problem. The concern many of us have is that the good/great content that the standard VB has will begin to decrease and what will be left are those substandard budget releases that I see many complain about. All the “good” content will then reside in these “premium” tabs. I know you have stated that this will not be the case, but seriously, as the founder of VB, would you say anything else? The problem is, I do not know how you can or will convince subscribers that this will never happen.
    Even with these premium studios, I do not see very recent releases, at least not compared to my local video store. Also, if I compare renting a DVD compared to downloading the scenes, DVD resolution is 720×480 whereas scenes here are 640×480. Not quite even DVD quality. Also, I cannot upconvert or play the WMV version on a stand alone player like the WD Media player on my TV.
    If you are going to have a subscription model with profit sharing, what you are doing now is fine. However, I will, again, not be part of this due to this slipper slope. I would, however, try to increase each studio’s back catalog first to increase the value for each studio. I know they have truckloads of content. I would avoid the iTunes model as other sites try to do this and I personally enjoy paying ONE price for a fixed period of time and enjoy unlimited downloads.
    I am sure you have read the papers/internet indicating that even porn is not recession-proof and maybe Larry Flynt wasn’t kidding too much when he was talking about a porn bailout. It is times like this that those with an inclination towards this kind of entertainment find more value in VB and I ask that you do not dilute this value you have given to many of us.
    Thanks for taking the time to read through this and hopefully you continue to keep your subscribers in mind.

  70. peru1978 Says:

    For the last two or so years that I’ve been an on-again off-again member, I’ve always considered the content on videobox to be bargain-bin, but I never really minded because there are plenty of scenes with some of my favorite stars that I would never have gotten the chance to see, mostly for financial reasons. I always felt like I was getting a great deal, and the user interface is excellent for discovering new content. I commend you for making the effort to provide better content to your customers, content that some would agree is premium in comparison, but I do think the channels are too expensive, only because you are indicating that there will be more channels. I do appreciate that you are working with your billing companies to implement a downgrade process so that I can spend just a month or two on one channel, download what I want and have the option to come back in a couple months to do the same, if I feel inclined to do so. If it could be that simple I say the more channels the merrier. Unfortunately the current billing situation is a mild catastrophe, and the million dollar question is still ‘who’s to say RLD, Voyeur, Zero Tolerance, etc. won’t leave Videobox Basic to go Premium?’ And let’s say Videobox has to say to one of these studios ’sorry, we can’t move you to Premium because it will devalue the Basic subscription’. Then the studio is forced to take a backseat to supposedly better studios, or they can just leave altogether, taking all of their content with them. This is an issue that I think still needs to be addressed, so far you are just pledging that the quality of content on Basic will not decline. Personally, I would most likely subscribe to a premium channel every now and then, definitely for Jules Jordan and Digital Playground, but only for a month or two for each channel, and I would be willing to pay an extra $10 per channel per month. Keep in mind if I see that special star, (Tia Tanaka), in that special outfit or filmed in just the right lighting or setting, I would also spring for the month’s membership just to get that scene. So you potentially have a good thing, but you also have many kinks to iron out before you get there. I also strongly recommend you NOT use tokens because they would take away the fun of discovering new things, and it would hinder the ability to revisit scenes that I’m mildly nostalgic about that I decided not to hold onto months/years ago.

  71. Mayshigian Says:

    Take charge of this relationship, dudes! You have the consumers that they need. That makes you the money holder and not them. Honestly, I love VB and never once thought to myself “If only they had premium content from Rancid Taint Studios”.

    How long have you kept your subscriber base?

    Call those guys back and tell them this: “I have X number of subscribers who want good porn and get it almost exclusively through VB. Most of them don’t go anywhere else for their porn. If you want to get your content in front of them, VB is your path. Are you on-board or do you want to wither on the vine while demanding stupid revenue-sharing deals?”

    Just say no.

  72. LexiconMogration Says:

    Fair price = $0 . . . included in VB subscription.

    Can these ‘premium’ studios survive by selling their DVDs in raunchy local porn stores? If so, leave them to it. Let them incur the production costs to create and distribute thousands of DVDs across the country, with most of them ending up in the bargain bin in another year.

  73. LexiconMogration Says:

    Yeah . . so without giving away the entire farm: how do you license most of your current content? I take it the deal is different from what these alleged ‘premium’ purveyors are requesting.

    Why can you get so much good quality stuff from other studios, but these steaming piles of Llama dung want special deals?

  74. jmk992 Says:

    Vivid is getting their ass kicked by the internet.
    VB is consistently rated as one of the best sites of the web.

    Don’t bow to their demands.

  75. Teacher Says:

    I agree with the majority here that a token-based system isn’t what I’d like to see. If I have to pay more, I’d prefer to pay more for the entire channel.

    That said, may I also suggest as many here have that you ring these channel-only companies and let them know that your subscribers are irate over their special conditions? Let’s try to get the price as low as possible so everyone makes a little bit of profit and we pay as little extra as possible.

    I think (well, I hope) too that if the % of folks adding the channel to their subscription is low, that the studios would recognize that they’ve pitched their prices too high. They should realize by now that if they’re too pricey, we can go virtually anywhere else!

  76. doppyman Says:

    WEll, since I last asked for a clear statement of the pricing, I have seen one other blogger ask the same question and one blogger say it’s ten dollars a month and two others citing the $18 price. No answer from Josh or anyone at VB of course. Read the posts in this stream again and notice the number of different answers to my questions offered in passing by the bloggers. Does it concern you that the pricing situation is so apparently unclear? WHY WON’T ANYONE AT VB CLEARLY POST THE PRICING ON THIS BLOG?

  77. ropeadope Says:

    doppyman – Please understand I am not speaking for VideoBox, so don’t take the following as gospel. However, my interpretation is that the cost of the premium channel(s) is based on the terms of your regular membership. If you have a monthly non DVD resolution subscription at $10/month, each premium channel will be an additional $10/month. If you have a monthly DVD resolution subscription at $18/month, each premium channel will be an additional $18/month. The initial month is prorated to your monthly renewal date. So if you sign up exactly at the midpoint of your current monthly cycle, you would incur a charge of $5 (non DVD resolution) or $9 (DVD resolution) for the remainder of the initial month. If you have a ten month subscription for $100, each premium channel would be an additional $100. But again, the charge would be prorated to your renewal date. So if you sign up with five months remaining on your ten month subscription, you would be billed an additional $50 for each premium channel. I would discuss the eighteen month membership, but fellow member Garp (you had me lol with your comments, Garp) is paying me quite handsomely for my silence on the matter. Hint: If you really want to know, see my post toward the top of this thread.

  78. RodeoRadio Says:

    Josh, don’t change anything, just get the billing worked out. The only problem I see with the site is it has a bunch of whiny ass bitches for members.

  79. jodeci78 Says:

    just say no. after a while content gets old anyway and over time i think the studios will come around. sure that could be 5 years from now, but whatever.

  80. Breadwinner Says:

    Sorry Josh, I gave you my comments previously but I thought it might be helpful if you took sort of a poll regarding the choices that you proposed. This and the additional comments may help sift through some things as there are a lot of comments at this point. It might be an easy way to get the gist of your subscriber base which what I suppose you were asking for when you posed this question. Just a suggestion. Thanks.

  81. microphone Says:

    Josh, I understood what you meant by token… I still hate the idea of pay per view.

  82. juanxyzzy Says:

    I’d be willing to try token for premium videos. But if I have to pay more then $1 a movie, I’ll just stick with my $9.99 subscription.

  83. Josh Drunk Says:

    Is this the end of VB? Josh, fire whomever came with the great idea of changing the business model. If it was you, fire yourself.

    Leave VB alone the way it is.

    Get rid of the premium channels and tokens. You have another site with PPV. Move your premiums there.

    By the way, the two studios you choose as premiums really suck.

  84. kreeyax Says:

    It doesn’t matter much to me what you do with the premium content, I probably won’t ever use it. The token approach sounds the most favorable though. I hope you can keep the base VideoBox offerings at their current price point and level of quality. It’s the great value this site offers that attracted me to it.

  85. Shorty Says:

    Way too expensive for stuff that is over-produced and not nearly as hot. The stuff you rent to watch with your girlfriend! Make it go away!

  86. hreid999 Says:

    i’m worried that vb standard will start scraping the bottom of the barrel for updates if you switch to a premium content subscription system. Evil Angel was a great addition. I think I will take ropeadope’s suggestion and buy the year membership and then add E A. thanks

    please don’t go with the token system

  87. ILTK Says:

    1 – As long as I never have to see any upsells for “premium content” unless I specifically go looking for it, not mixed in with regular content, not in search, nowhere, I don’t care what you add. 2 – Don’t start dropping the quality of the regular content. Tell these premium studios to go fuck themselves if they demand anything, lot’s of good small studios with more variety and niche content. Keep doing what you do, some day VB will be the one making the demands, until then keep trucking along and let “premium” studios rot.

  88. aBabyAteMyDingo Says:

    Add premium channels as an option, but allow users to switch their premium channel(s) once every 30 days within account setup. Ex: If you have 10 premium channels and a user subscribes to 2, then they get to pick which 2 they want every 30 days.

    Then pay the studios pro-rated fees. This puts studios in a position where they are directly competing with each other and will hopefully encourage studios to offer better stuff to VB.

    Doing this will also offer a much better value for long-term subscriptions, especially if you add more premium channels.

  89. Exactly Says:

    I wouldn’t mind buying a single scene of a perfomer I really like, but hell no with a token. I mean, a dollar per scene wouldn’ be bad, but If I have to buy a $20 token when i’m only going to download one scene, that’s a bit annoying. Otherwise, just go back to old VB.

  90. aBabyAteMyDingo Says:

    A huge problem is your current billing system directly conflicts with user behavior. You offer discounted rates for VB to encourage long-term subscriptions. Yet the premium channel option is one that users are going to want to frequently change because of the relatively few updates.

    Users with long-term VB subscriptions either have to go with long-term premium subscriptions or downgrade to monthly VB subscriptions (and pay more) in order to switch premium channels easily.

    So you really are taking away from the core VB membership with the current premium channel setup.

    I believe the answer is to offer different levels of VB membership:
    Standard /
    Standard with 1 premium channel /
    Standard with 2 premium channels /
    DVD-Quality /
    DVD-Quality with 1 premium channel /
    DVD-Quality with 2 premium channels /
    etc

    Then allow users to switch between premium channels every 30 days.

    In addition to the benefits I mentioned in my previous post, this approach immediately ends your billing nightmare.

  91. G man Says:

    I used to like this blog…

  92. thirdeye Says:

    The most logical is to have all options be available – as a few others have said. Have the premium channels as an option (personally I like the token idea over the subscription idea, especially then you could just mesh all the premium content together into one section and let us pick & choose with the tokens… and hell yeah, $1.00 per token is perfectly fine by me) — and then for the naysayers you just put an option in account setup to completely remove all visibility of the premium content from the site when they login; and they can pretend it does not exist! LoL

    This is the obvious way to make EVERYONE happy and also allow you to pack this site with as much f*cking porn as possible! LoL. Ignore the idiots who dont understand that the premium content does not even remotely take away from the quality of the REGULAR subscription.

  93. Mike Says:

    I completely agree with everything thirdeye has just said! That is the best plan, since it will appease the largest amount of people. I personally will probably never pay for the premium stuff unless there is a token system, since only 1 or 2 scenes really interest me.

  94. Harstad Says:

    I still cant figure out how much it costs!!!!!! Either I am retarded, which is possible, or this whole thing is retarded, which is more likely.

    I’m a premium member. How much extra will it cost me? Another $17.95 a month??? LAME.

    By the way, this blog sucks since Josh started posting.

  95. DP Says:

    You guys have already decided to go with the channel option, so keep it that way. Too many changes leaves people really confused, which isn’t the best mindset to approach the daily dose of porn.

    Keep the basic VB membership cost the same.

    I don’t think any premium channel should cost more than half of a month’s VB basic membership. Otherwise I start thinking, “lets see, I can pay $10-15 more and get access to every single disc in the studio’s library on THEIR website, or pay $10-15 less for access to the 20 discs that VB has in their library”.

    I’d encourage you to start looking for some really niche-market type premium studios. Vivid is essentially PG-rated porn, when comparing to other studios. Please add some stuff that is hard to find. People will be willing to pay for something that is difficult to find. You guys conducted a poll about fetishes. Maybe content dude can look at all the niche market options he has available, and put up a poll targeting those specific fetishes. Take the results under consideration for the niche channel(s) you add.

  96. doppyman Says:

    Ropeadope – thank you for your response. If you are not on the VB payroll you should be. I find it disturbing that no one from VB was willing to clearly state pricing on here. Josh and others – please note Harstad’s post from a few hours ago. I wasn’t the only one with this problem and the fact that no clear posting of pricing has been done – at least for those of us whose billers are not set up yet to handle the issue – is another screw-up in your handling of this. Not just a mere screw-up IMHO, but a persistent, negligent, and possibly deliberately misleading screw-up, probably not as deceitful as your displaying Vivid as future basic content, not as egregiously incompetent as your handling of the billing, but a screw-up nonetheless. Are you hoping to confuse people into overpaying? I don’t like raking you dudes over the coals like this, but this is how I feel about recent events. THAT SAID, if Rope’s account of the price structure is correct, then I THINK THE RATES YOU A CHARGING FOR THE PREMIUM CHANNELS MAKE A LOT OF SENSE. I HAPPEN TO REALLY LIKE BOTH STUDIOS AND WOULD DEFINITELY SIGN ON FOR EACH OF THEM FOR A PERIOD OF TIME. The slow rate of updates would make this a month to month thing, not a long term thing. Bloggers seem to have two opinions on your whole handling of the matter. Some are mad and disappointed about it, others defend your site and like that there is new good stuff available. The thing is, they are both right. The site is great and the new premium content is a good addition, but the way you have handled this and are continuing to handle this is enough to make loyal fans angry and somewhat apprehensive about the future.

  97. Just Say No Says:

    I really think you guys are messing up here. The best option is just to say no. Why?

    1) Simplicity. You’ve made things way too complicated. I like you guys because you are simple and straight forward. Set price, no DRM, etc.
    2) Precedence. Once the option is in place, what is to stop your current studios from demanding a premium channel? Maybe that is the way you guys want to go, but it is not why your current customers subscribe.
    3) Scale. How many “premium” channels do you guys expect to have? Having 5 or 10 premium channels at 17/each is going to annoy your customer base, guaranteed.

    Ultimately I get the impression that your current business model is not working. If that is the case, then I guess you have to do what is necessary to stay in business. If it is working, why rock the boat? If you can make it profitable, I really think that you guys should stick to your old model and studios who don’t want to play can try to run their own websites. If you continue to amass customers they’ll come around or be left in the dust.

  98. davros Says:

    While I am a bit worried about other studios going this route with you (effectively holding you hostage), if this is what it takes for the site to host the vids, I guess I’ll have to live with it. I would like it more if the jump in price for premium content were more consistent with what we get. What is it, one DVD every 3 days or so? That hardly seems worth the extra 8 bucks.
    I’m a fan of the site and aren’t about to leave it. There’s plenty of porn here to go around.

  99. miah Says:

    I like the token based premium area idea SO LONG AS a few tokens are included in basic membership as a sort of teaser so basic members can check it out. Being able to preview premium videos (download disabled) before spending tokens would be key as well.

  100. miah Says:

    Vivid is hot. I would like premium content like vivid and even hustler is possible. The iTunes idea sounds good, just throw a couple complimentary tokens in with basic membership to get us started.

  101. harstad Says:

    IF Rope’s prices are right that is a load and I wont be subscribing nor do I see a whole lot of people subscribing. Another $18 a month is outrageous for 12 videos a month. Patently ridiculous. If that was the best rate you could get you shouldn’t have even bothered.

  102. HotScooter2 Says:

    Josh:
    no offense. but the subject is old and i am tired of talking about it. in the end you will either keep the premium channels ,and solve the billing and price issues,or go back to the way it was on this site.we have discussed this subject to death.
    You are the site owner do what you gonna do. we have told you all you need to know . so just do what you gonna do,and we will do the same. good luck deciding,as i have never before seen so much uproar on this site,and i have been a member off and on for over 5 years

  103. meltedmoss Says:

    Ya no kidding you would be stupid to pay $54/month for the quality of content on this site. You can Redtube/Torrent most of these scenes as it is. $18/month for 6000 DVDs and the ease of use it provides is worth it. Paying much more then that is pretty dumb. I’ve gone as high as $30 for a network of sites that offered literally 10,000 hentai scenes, or for exclusive girls on amateur porn sites. Nothing on Vivid or EA is worth $17/month extra. Also the servers are really slow here compared to most sites which for $54 a month would piss me off even more. I’ve quit this site for that reason as well. If you use the token system for the premium channels I hope you don’t follow the microsoft model and just make it a straight up 1 token per scene and 100 tokens per $10 or something on the cheaper end of things and not $1/token. 0.10c /token might work.
    Hopefully your premium channels will update more often or add in thier top of the line videos which I don’t see on the site right now either.

  104. Xanthious Says:

    Just say NO! There is a reason that VB is on the top of most all the lists that rate adult websites. Adding these premium channels does nothing to make this site better. They only make things confusing and detract from what made VB great to begin with.

  105. J Says:

    I for one would love to see an option that completely removes all mentions of the premium content once logged in. It really bothers me to see extra stuff in my search results and ad banners promoting scenes that I have to pay extra for. Getting everything for one low price used to be one of the best features of this site. I don’t want to be reminded constantly that I need to pay more to get other content.

  106. Bill Says:

    I’m glad that Videobox is trying to add more high-quality porn to it’s already impressive catalog, and while my initial reaction to the Premium Channels concept was generally negative, I really admire your willingness to listen to feedback on these issues from your customers. My preference for pricing these Premium Channels would be to charge around $10 per month per channel, which would keep the price of any single Premium Channel from being too much higher than the cost of the underlying Videobox subscription for most people. I would avoid the Token option completely, unless: (1) you could add it as a completely separate option for people who want to check out a limited number of scenes from the Premium Channels, and (2) you are able to implement an excellent preview system so members can make sure that a scene is worth paying for separately. As for the people who suggest that you JUST SAY NO!, I would provide them with a filter so they will not see anything originating from or related to the Premium Channels. That way, Videobox will look exactly the same to those users as it did before you implemented the new channels.

    My final suggestion is to add a special “Platinum Membership Level” for users that want access to all of your content, no mstter how many Premium Channels you guys add in the future. You might have to charge $35 or $40 a month for a Platinum Memebership, but many users will be willing to pay a higher price to have access to all your content without being nickeled and dimed to death everytime you add a new Premium Channel. A Platinum subscriber would only have to act once, then wouldn’t have to worry about being asked over and over to pay more to get new or additional content. Videobox could pay the Premium Channel content providers a percentage of the Platinum Membership surcharge based on how much premium content the subscriber downloads or views from their channel. For example, if I paid $10 a month for Videobox originally and then agreed to pay $35 a month for a Platinum Membership, the surcharge would be $25 a month. Let’s say I downloaded 50 scenes from your Premium Channel content providers during Month 1, in addition to the regular Videobox content I viewed and downloaded. 20 scenes were from Vivid, 20 scenes from EA, and 10 from a new content provider. Videobox would then allocate $10 of my $25 surcharge to Vivid and to EA, and $5 to the third content provider to be named later. I know it may sound like an accounting headache, but it would probably be easy to implement, and it would obviously be very fair to the Premium Channel content providers, as well. Good idea, huh?

  107. rutnadexin3 Says:

    Pricing doesn’t matter that much to me. However, I don’t think the premium channels should be linked to your type of VB subscription unless u desire it that way. If I want to be a member of VB for the entire year, I have no option to say, well, I just want EA for 6 months and then Vivid for six months, and then keep on switching back. I’d have to sign up for VB in the monthly manner, which I don’t like.

  108. thirdeye Says:

    I really cant figure out why people call the premium stuff “too confusing”… once the billing shit is figured out, bye bye confusion. Or use the token system to which any moron should be able to understand and use with ease

  109. 2axisassassin Says:

    If you want to use the cable TV model, you can’t sell the premium channel for as much as the basic cable service. I pay $30/month for DTV, and HBO costs another $10. So I’d say 30% of your basic rate (i.e., $4-5 for basic members, $10 for a DVD quality subscriber like me).

    The per DL/token is bad for VB because it is contrary to the current model of unlimited downloads for a low price — that’s central to your value proposition, you change that at your risk.

  110. Bronty Says:

    This has been a most illuminating discussion—pricing models, market preferences, the VB blog as an example of revolutionary customer service and engagement. I haven’t read every post here, but I would really like to. The business geek in me finds this utterly fascinating.

    My two penneth… I have more than enough porn from the standard VB content. On top of that, I subscribe to FTVGirls and have an account at a VOD site. I have no interest in subscribing to the two premium channels on offer here at VD. That said, I think the pricing and overall model/design is fine. I strongly agree with Rope.

    I do have the worry that existing VB studios will pull out of the all-you-can-eat contract and insist on going ‘premium’. I wonder what the chances of that is?

  111. MrPointy Says:

    I looked at the EA and Vivid offerings, and couldn’t find anything I’d pay extra for.

    I’ll also echo what others have said: adding premium channels risks turning the main VB site into the bargain bin. You need to nip this thing in the bud now, before every studio decides it’s a “premium” studio. If it gets to the point where all the “good stuff” costs extra, I would probably just let my subscription lapse.

    Also, the pricing model is way too complicated and backwards. DVD members shouldn’t have to pay more to get to the “premium” content than regular members–if anything, they should get a discount as an incentive to bump to the DVD level. So if you have to have premium channels, I wouldn’t price them anywhere above $5/month regardless of membership tier. If you can’t make money off Vivid and EA, let them take their balls and go home (so to speak). From what I’ve seen, they won’t be missed.

  112. Dicedork Says:

    Like many others, I would have no problem with these premium channels IF the licensing from other studios wouldn’t turn regular VB into a bargain bin. We already have some pretty godawful movies floating around out there. I, like many others who’ve chimed in, probably wouldn’t keep buying something (even for so cheap) if the crap to gold ratio dropped much further.

    However, it seems to me that just adding a “platinum” tier might be the best option here instead of channels. Make it a few dollars (heck, make it 10-15 dollars) more. Then licence as much content as you can with that added revenue for your platinum members understanding that for these folks quality trumps quantity. Then there’s only ONE pie to be sliced up. But I agree that if it becomes a feeding frenzy of studios wanting to be a premium channel, things are going to get way too complicated, way too fast. The potential for shenanigans is just way too high, and it is your customers who will suffer (and then leave).

    Also, you’re the best deal in town by far. Is it possible you can just raise your subscriptions for everyone by a few dollars to licence this better content? Then you don’t have to mess with tiers and crap. You can make one of your selling points that you have an EA and/or Vivid movie at least “every X days” or whatever. Given the content to price ratio of other sites that charge two, three, even more times what VB charges, it seems like your supply/demand curve would still be okay.

    A combination of raising prices slightly and a “super premium” tier (or whatever you call it) would probably be a great solution just so long as your regular content is the same quality we’ve come to expect.

  113. Sirid Says:

    Well Josh I think Climax Corner/Videobox has “Jumped the Shark”.

    I have been a member for a long time and I believe that when we think back in some years to what happened to such a great site this will be the reason it is no longer a great.

    Please set up a new site and do what ever you want with it and your “Premium Porn” from studio’s that won’t let there stuff be on Videobox without outragous demands and let those members add Videobox as pay a channel.

    Then just try not to lose the member base you have already built up!

  114. Josh Drunk Says:

    AGAIN: Regular VB updates are starting to suck. VB is releasing only old movies with crappy video resolution.

    [jump to read more]

  115. RD Says:

    Videobox doesnt need Vivid or EA. They need Videobox.

  116. Kali Says:

    I think that for a long term view, you should say no to the offers and go back to the old videobox. The reason videobox became such a success is because you provide an incredible amount of videos with good quality, many updates at a very low price. Going back to what the studios do seems to be 1. a step backward 2. a recipe for failure.
    Another aspect is that giving Evil Angels and Vivid the opportunity to do that just opened the pandora box. I can just picture Private going “hey, we don’t do that. let’s stop providing videobox with videos and get our channel”.

    So no compromise. Say no. It pains me for now as I do like Vivid (might get stoned here) but in the long term it’s gonna be for the best as studios will realize their business model is wrong and they should join the pack with videobox.

  117. RTZ Says:

    Please just say no. I would love to go back to old VB interface! No more premium, pretty please.

    Thank you.

  118. HotScooter2 Says:

    Josh:

    what’s it gonna be.You asked for our feedback,and you got it. we haven’t heard from you since.Are you keeping the premium channels or saying no.Only the VB exec’s know and they are not telling the members.We are paying customers and have the right to know what your plans are. from your responses count those in favor of the premium channels and those not in favor.go with a majority vote and make your decision.
    I thought you asked us because you wanted our feedback,noow i am not so certain.
    you are the owner and it is your responsibility to tell us your decision,and if that means by my taking such a strong stand that i become banned from this site then i can live with that that.
    All you gotta do is make that decision.Every day you delay it i think is only hurting your business. if oyu go with premium channels all you need to do is fix the billing and pricing from what i can see,and if you don’t use it all you need too do is take it all back the way it was before.

  119. Boots Says:

    I’m very happy with my “VideoBox Premium” account as is. I generally have more than I can watch so I’m unlikely to pay for extra. Things you could tempt me with include:
    (a) Higher quality than 640×480. My screen is 1600×900.

    (b) Fetishes and specific interests that are not covered by your mainstream videos.

    I’d prefer a token system so I could dip into the esoteric stuff occasionally. However, I’m not likely to be a big spender so you may find it’s not worth doing. I’d rather you did nothing than mess up the good thing you already have.

  120. yesman Says:

    I like what Lubenluv had to add, and it’s true. Videobox has superior technology to basically all other porn sites. You probably have a larger subscriber base too. It seems to me that YOU should be setting the ground rules, not Vivid or EA.
    –The internet is the next step, not DVD sales. Retail sales are going down as direct sales on the internet goes up, across the board with all entertainment industries. YOU are the next step videobox, that’s why this site has such good reviews. They’re Blockbuster and you’re Netflix. You’ve combined superior technology with an intuitive interface and built an honest reputation. You have the best adult content delivery platform out there. These guys couldn’t hope to tap into your casual porn viewing subscriber base right now with their websites. I think you should set YOUR terms and if they don’t like them let them walk away.

  121. Damon Says:

    My vote is for allowing individual purchase of premium digital content and the physical dvds themselves in a one-click fashion. Otherwise stick with what was working. Perhaps you could put this premimum content on a new website and offer vbox users discounted rates and make it easier for them to signup so they don’t have to be disgusted by it but they have the option if they want it. :)

  122. mistahleary Says:

    @HotScooter: If Josh actually cared what we had to say, he would have brought this up before the change was implemented.

    I’m thoroughly convinced that they have no clue what to do, and that the owner dumb lucked into putting together a good site.

    I would predict the next post we see states that he can’t get out of the contracts, and that this is how VB will have to be for the foreseeable future.

    I’ll also predict that revenue will fall for April and May, and the brain surgeons incharge will blame the economy.

  123. NightBuddha Says:

    Thanks for the chance to be heard on this. Just say no. I want Videobox as I have come to love it. All you can eat (and download) Videos for the lowest price possible, and no gimmics. I pay by the 10 month plan and am quite satisfied. I do not want to pay more. I do not like Vivid, and EA is OK, but I do not want to pay more for it. I will not use a token system. Videobox has a great community, an innovative UI, and you guys have more power than you think with the studios. Just keep on doing what you have always done, and what made your site fun and a good value. The studios that want to get onboard will be more than enough. We don’t need another pay-as-you-go site.
    Best,
    NB.

  124. HotScooter2 Says:

    Mistahleahy:

    i gotta agree with ya .i don’t think our opinion counts for shit,even though he did ask for it. in all likelihood i will just cancel my membership.

  125. Rice Says:

    Since i’ve been a long time member i’ll just jump in with my two cents (haven’t read all the others as i’d rather be downloading)

    i am not pleased with the new content, while i surely like the idea of having MORE videos to download, i’m pretty much satisfied with what VB offers now. of course i would like more fetish and niche video but i can get those elsewhere.

    i am not a fan of vivid and the ea – and if you do move forward with them i’d like to see an option not to show them on my account as it’s a shame to see scenes i don’t have access to.

    the only way i will cancel my membership is if you phase out your multiple video roll out per day, and if you start using tokens to view scenes – and then i’ll just move to torrents.

    but i am open to paying more per month (to a price-point) for more content. I would be willing to go up 50% of my premium membership to get some new good videos in (but not the ones you’re looking at) – but at some point there are just too many videos to watch everyday.

    i say please just stick to what you have going now, it has made you the best service on the net and has changed the way people view adult material – i for one have never bought a dvd since i signed up with you. once you have enough members these big names will realize this and will be more accommodating.

  126. doppyman Says:

    Still no clear statement of pricing. Only an answer from Ropeadope has interrupted the silence. I think Hotscooter might have explained the reality of it all to us already. At this point I’ve changed my opinion on the sincerity of VB in terms of its commitment to its customers. I will say that the site is still excellent and I have not seen a decline in quality of the posts since the premium channels came in. But I doubt I will ever sign up for a premium channel and if I did, it would be after leaving VB for a while, coming back when there is a lot more content on the channels than there is now, and then for only as long as I can download like a madman to get what I want; then I’ll cancel and after some time come back as a basic customer, if there is a basic customer level then and if it is any good, viewing VB sort of the way you treat a service that you engage in a mutual exploitation relationship with, rather than a business you feel that has earned your trust and you stick with long term out of mutual trust and respect.

  127. Bill Says:

    After reading all the forgoing comments, I think the two best options going forward are: (1) adding a PLATINUM MEMBERSHIP level to the existing “Premium Channels” model for users that want access to all of your content, no matter how many Premium Channels you guys add in the future, or (2) moving all of the Premium Channel nonsense to what would essentially be a different website and keeping VB the way it is now. Members who are interested in so-called Premium Content could add the new site to their subscription, and everyone else could go on using the old VB they have grown to love. Tokens are not a good idea — they completely go against VB’s excellent value proposition of unlimited downloads for a fair price, as other members have stated.

    I already outlined how a Platinum Membership level could work in a post dated March 31st, so I won’t repeat it here. I’m pretty sure I personally would subscribe to something like that (provided the pricing is fair) because I hate it when I can’t have access to content that is otherwise available and I hate the thought of being nickeled-and-dimed into buying multiple premium channels.

    If you decide to stay with your new Premium Channel business model, you should revise your pricing structure for the Premium Channels. I liked the suggestion of keeping the price of each channel down to about a third (and no more than half) of what a user pays per month for their standard VB subscription. Also, I think you should allow users to add multiple channels for a lower price than a single channel. For example, your first Premium Channel could be $10, and each additional channel only $5. That way, you would encourage users to add more than one channel without hurting your revenue-sharing pool very much, because, let’s face it, a user can only download so many videos per month. I also strongly recommend that you employ a strong filter to keep Premium Channel content from showing up anywhere for users that aren’t interested — there are clearly a lot of users that don’t want to see that stuff at all. You should be happy that so many users have said they would prefer that you “Just Say NO”; it shows just how much many of us long-time members love what you’ve put together here, and we don’t want to see it get screwed up.

    Finally, I tend to agree with Hotscooter and Doppyman when I say that you should do something SOON. Are you guys actually reading these posts? Why no comments or feedback from Josh or anyone else at VB? This is obviously an issue your user base (i.e., your PAYCHECK) cares about, and we would like to have an update on where you are in this process even if you haven’t made a final decision. Thanks again for opening this up for discussion; we look forward to hearing back from you soon. RIP ropeadope — you will be missed by all.

  128. cloudancer69 Says:

    This is quite the read,and a lot of people with lots to say.
    I just joined and was shocked, felt a bit betrayed and like there was a bait and switch going on when I hit the screen with addons. I think better integration in the pre sales area would help. Explaining some of the stuff the VideoBox team has said in the blog might also help. I’ve gotten over it as I read and might even pick up a subscription to EA.
    On ideas (Maybe there should be a poll?):
    **Tokens = Evil incarnate!!! I’ll stay for my term, but the damage they do to the main premise puts my long term renewal on shaky ground.
    **Vivid = Blah, yuck…not w/ my money (Same with Adam&Eve)
    **Evil Angel = Good choice for premium content
    **Private = Another good choice, there are plenty more too.
    **Premium for my wife = A guaranteed cash flow :)
    If you add more premiums, can we pleas get package deals (dropping monthly cost per channel based on how many you purchase)? I only watch so much, I’m only paying for variety & good quality.

  129. Nathan Says:

    get rid of the premium channels and concentrate on makeing the original videobox the best it can be if vivid and evil angel don’t want to do bussiness nicley tell them to get fucked as far as im concered vivid is full of fake tit blonds
    and evil is over the top arogant european shit to much make up accessories to much bullshit for words forget about tokens it will kill value for money and you have to ask your self where does it stop whats next eg digital playground as a premium chanel come on look the best thing i can sujest is that you charge a bit more for mebership that might help you get more studios on board please take my post into consideration and ps please get more big natrual tits dvds and euro porn thanks.

  130. Chris Says:

    Just say no